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探讨公益人生，分享成功体会",[503,504,505],"p",{},"采访记者：李倩倩、康艳丽",[503,507,508],{},"采访周刊：《科教导刊》2009年第16期",[503,510,511],{},[498,512,513],{},"正文：",[503,515,516],{},"短平头，米色休闲外套，这个集企业家、公益慈善家、超级富豪、顶级投资人身份于一身的人看起来平和、随意。年少时成功创业、成功时退居幕后，拥有财富时投身公益慈善事业。用他自己的话说，他无疑是个看得明白的人。尽管企业做得风生水起，投资也硕果累累，但他却没有任何豪言壮语。当人们赞叹他的成功时，他说他只是享受奋斗的过程；当人们为他退居幕后惋惜时，他说他最看重亲情；当人们为他的几次巨额捐赠感动时，他却只认为那是他必须做的事情。",[503,518,519],{},"本刊记者：您如何看待成功和公益事业？",[503,521,522,524,525,528,529,532,533,528,536,528,539,532,542,532,545,528,548,532],{},[498,523,500],{},"：这是一个很有意思的问题。成功实际上是一种定义。",[498,526,527],{},"我觉得成功取决于自己对自己的看法","，",[498,530,531],{},"而不是别人对你的看法","。",[498,534,535],{},"只要你喜欢自己做的事情",[498,537,538],{},"你觉得能享受到人生",[498,540,541],{},"就是你的成功",[498,543,544],{},"跟你享有什么样的头衔和名分没有那么大的关系",[498,546,547],{},"如果你太在意别人对你的看法",[498,549,550],{},"那什么样的成功都没有乐趣",[503,552,553,554,528,557,528,560,563],{},"我其实对公益的了解并不多。对于我来说，我做的事情就是我必须要做的事情，我就是这么理解的。钱多了就麻烦，所以我就得把它捐了。捐到哪里？我不能乱捐。从楼上直接往下扔？那不叫捐款，那叫胡来。多数人不会理解花钱比赚钱难，也许有些人有些明白，多数人可能不会明白。其实道理很简单，",[498,555,556],{},"因为赚钱都是用自己熟悉的手段",[498,558,559],{},"简单而且可以重复",[498,561,562],{},"但是花钱往往是不一样的","。我们捐款，经常是面对不同的人，捐的是不同的地方，那是要承担很多风险的。我捐的钱可能不会用到我想要用的地方，而且我事先就知道，某些捐款会被浪费掉或者浪费掉一部分。所以很多人不想捐就是这个原因，会想不通。为什么我捐的钱他揣到自己的腰包里去？我想的却是另外一面，就是总有人不会乱花这个钱。我现在就在找（这样的人），所以我想做公益确实还是一件挺难的事情。",[503,565,566],{},"本刊记者：您投身公益事业是出于怎样的思考？",[503,568,569,571,572,532,575,528,578,528,581,532,584,528,587,590,591,528,594,528,597,528,600,603],{},[498,570,500],{},"：我做公益确实是一个不得不做的事情。谈不上是我的兴趣所在，但却是我必须要做的。",[498,573,574],{},"这与个人对财富的观点有很大的关系",[498,576,577],{},"像我们这一辈子在自己的工作当中获得了很多乐趣",[498,579,580],{},"我个人认为乐趣是在过程当中",[498,582,583],{},"而不在结果",[498,585,586],{},"赚多少钱不重要",[498,588,589],{},"但是赚钱这个过程是很有乐趣的","。但是最大的问题是赚了钱以后你怎么花？个人的生活所需确实是很有限，我赚的钱可能十年前、二十年前就远远超出我的个人所需了。所以我就想那剩下的怎么办？我又不能把钱都给我的子女，把钱给子女最大的问题就是你剥夺了他们奋斗的乐趣。那剩下的怎么办？等到临死那天才急着处理的话我觉得很愚蠢。",[498,592,593],{},"我认为多出来的钱对每个人来讲都是一种麻烦",[498,595,596],{},"那么我现在如果能够把这些麻烦捐出去还能帮到别人",[498,598,599],{},"我觉得挺好",[498,601,602],{},"我其实就是这么想的","。我跟很多人都这么讲，有的人可能觉得像在讲故事，其实真是这样，我这人其实挺实在的，没有什么对身份的看重，也根本不在乎别人说我是什么。",[503,605,606],{},"本刊记者：您觉得能取得今天的成就，自身的什么品质最重要？",[503,608,609,611,612,528,615,618,619,623,624,627,628,631,632,532,638,528,641,528,646,532],{},[498,610,500],{},"：",[498,613,614],{},"成就大不大我觉得不重要",[498,616,617],{},"个人品质对我来说最重要的是诚信","。这跟我们公司",[620,621,5],"a",{"href":622},"\u002Fbenfen","、诚信的",[620,625,100],{"href":626},"\u002Fqiyewenhua","一样。",[498,629,630],{},"没有什么东西比诚信更重要","。我在读中欧的时候，张院长统计过世界上经历了时间考验的成功人士包括最优秀的经理人、企业家的最重要的品质，统计的结果是“Integrity”，",[498,633,634,635],{},"就是诚信和",[620,636,162],{"href":637},"\u002Fzhengzhi",[498,639,640],{},"我们公司能走到今天",[498,642,643,644],{},"道理只有一个：我们有一个很强的",[620,645,100],{"href":626},[498,647,648],{},"有很重原则的东西在里面",[503,650,651],{},"本刊记者：为什么您选择退居幕后去了美国？",[503,653,654,656,657,660,661,528,664,667],{},[498,655,500],{},"：从我的角度来讲，我去美国就是为了孩子。",[498,658,659],{},"我认为做企业","、",[498,662,663],{},"做事业的这个过程我已经Enjoy过了",[498,665,666],{},"这个东西再往下做也不外乎如此","。我不追求财富，对影响力也没丝毫兴趣，有自己够花的钱就够了，我想我可能看得比较明白。",[503,669,670,528,673,528,676,679,680,528,683,528,686,689,690,528,693,528,696,532,699,528,702,660,705,528,708,528,711,528,714,532],{},[498,671,672],{},"每个人的追求不一样",[498,674,675],{},"人就一辈子",[498,677,678],{},"最重要的是你要喜欢你做的事情","。我喜欢我现在做的事，我就觉得很好，我并不去跟别人去比较。所以我想这是一个人的生活方式，我比较平淡，很多东西很多人很喜欢，可是这些东西对我来讲，可能不过是“曾经沧海”，我都看到过了，觉得这些东西其实就是这么回事，我觉得我还有很多别的乐趣。",[498,681,682],{},"什么东西对我最重要？比方说看着自己的小孩慢慢长大",[498,684,685],{},"我就觉得很开心",[498,687,688],{},"很Enjoy这个过程","。我也见过忙得风生水起的企业家老跟我说：“阿段你知道吗？我觉得我做得最失败的地方就是没有陪我的小孩长大，现在小孩都不认我了。” 亲情这个东西能补吗？赚多少钱也补不回来的。",[498,691,692],{},"所以我觉得钱其实不重要",[498,694,695],{},"对别人的影响力其实也不重要",[498,697,698],{},"最重要的东西就是亲情",[498,700,701],{},"我认为亲情比所有的东西都重要",[498,703,704],{},"包括所谓的身份",[498,706,707],{},"头衔",[498,709,710],{},"所以有些人在乎的东西",[498,712,713],{},"我可能不是那么在乎",[498,715,716],{},"我很喜欢我现在这种生活",[503,718,719],{},"本刊记者：请您谈谈您的读书习惯，平时都读什么书？",[503,721,722,724],{},[498,723,500],{},"：我的读书习惯不太好。我大概一年时间也看不完一本书，但是我会买很多书、翻很多书。我大概平均买五十本书会看其中的一本，大部分书都是简单翻一翻，很少从头到尾读。虽然买的时候有很好的愿望，很想看。",[503,726,727,728,528,731,734,735,532],{},"我觉得大部分书对我来讲确实也不值得看。比方说他的观点跟我一样，",[498,729,730],{},"我看到那个观点就想：这个人写的这本书跟我观点一样",[498,732,733],{},"然后就结束了","。明白这个道理吗？就是说他观点跟我一样，他的书里所有的内容不过就是要证明这个观点，所以我没必要看，对不对？当然有些书，我一看这个观点很有意思，但仔细一看其实它里面论据是乱的，我再看到一个论据是乱的，那后面的我就不看了。比方说一个经济学家，他给出来的数据都是错的，那再往下的东西我是不看的，因为这个人连最基本的数据都搞错了，那得出来的结论肯定是不对的。像计量经济学特别典型，你要做个模型，那如果最基本的数据、最基本的模型都是错的，得出来的结论一定是错的。那我却根据这个结论再去做投资，做别的东西，我都得错，对不对？所以你要关心这些东西。当然这可能跟我学数量经济学有关系，",[498,736,737],{},"我对数字很敏感",[503,739,740,741,528,744,747,748,528,751,754,755,528,758,528,761,528,764,528,767,532],{},"但是我觉得总的来讲，看书你喜欢看什么就看什么，开卷有益，总会有帮助。但是你要合理分布你的时间，不能所有的时间都去看书了，这样不行。",[498,742,743],{},"书看太多也不一定好",[498,745,746],{},"最重要的是你要能够理解","。你问我读书的习惯，我自己觉得我没有特别好的读书习惯，我一般就是翻书，我很少拿一本书从头到尾读，而且我最大的毛病是看了一本书，知道里面讲什么，但从来就记不住作者，甚至经常记不住书名。",[498,749,750],{},"但是我接受的最关键的论点我会记很多年",[498,752,753],{},"比方说价格围绕价值上下波动","。我看不是很多人会想到这个问题，都只是去讲经济形势。",[498,756,757],{},"但是经济形势对价值的影响是不大的",[498,759,760],{},"好公司就是好公司",[498,762,763],{},"而且好公司在经济形势不好的时候有可能会对它更有利",[498,765,766],{},"你要去衡量它的价值",[498,768,769],{},"所以我觉得读书是很有帮助的",[503,771,772],{},"本刊记者：您如何看待学校中的学习和工作中的学习？",[503,774,775,777,778,528,781,784],{},[498,776,500],{},"：我觉得学校中的学习和工作中的学习其实没什么不同，就是你需要什么学什么，或者说你喜欢什么学什么。我没有什么特别的看法可以与众不同。比方说我要去日本了，我不懂日语，我可以首先找一本《日语速成》，学个几句基本的问候语。比方说我现在突然对石油感兴趣了，但对石油没概念，就找一本关于石油的书。现在很方便，网上就可以找。",[498,779,780],{},"自己有需求的时候",[498,782,783],{},"学习才会有动力","。比方说我的接受能力赶不上，那就学。学，有很多种办法，也可能有些东西你永远都学不会，那就请个会的人来帮你。",[503,786,787,788,532,791,528,794,532,797,660,800,660,803,660,806,532,809,528,812,528,815,532,818,528,821,528,824,528,827,528,830,528,833,532],{},"但有一样是肯定的，就是学习的方法。**在学校学到的是学习的方法！**很多人说：学校里学的很多东西在工作岗位上用不上。用不上是正常的，学的东西都能在工作中用上的话，那就有点不正常了。也许你学什么你就当老师教什么，事实上你可能学了二十门课，但却不可能当二十门课的老师，因为你还是用不上。",[498,789,790],{},"所以大多数用不上是正常的",[498,792,793],{},"读书学的东西就像开了一个百货店",[498,795,796],{},"你去百货店买东西只能买其中的一种或者几种",[498,798,799],{},"所以工作中用的时候你必须把过去学的东西要深化",[498,801,802],{},"要精",[498,804,805],{},"要细",[498,807,808],{},"要真的能够解决问题",[498,810,811],{},"学校里只能告诉你哪个商店里有服装卖",[498,813,814],{},"但是到了店里你还得自己去找衣服",[498,816,817],{},"甚至找不到合适的你还得自己做",[498,819,820],{},"学习是每个人一辈子的东西",[498,822,823],{},"包括我在内",[498,825,826],{},"我做企业这么多年",[498,828,829],{},"我去做投资",[498,831,832],{},"很多东西也是从头学的",[498,834,835],{},"中间也吃了很多很多苦头",[503,837,838],{},"本刊记者：现在很多学生对择业比较迷茫，您有什么建议？",[503,840,841,611,843,532,846,528,849,528,852,528,855,858,859,528,862,528,865,868],{},[498,842,500],{},[498,844,845],{},"我觉得迷茫是正常的",[498,847,848],{},"我大概三十岁以前都挺迷茫的",[498,850,851],{},"因为那么迷茫",[498,853,854],{},"所以就要不断地找",[498,856,857],{},"每个人最后都要去找到适合你做的事情","。我个人评价就是你能不能够Enjoy你的工作，至于赚多少钱我觉得最好不要作为很重要的标准。因为如果你干一件很痛苦的事情，就是赚再多的钱其实也不一定合算。你看很多有钱人其实很痛苦，没有大家过得开心。所以我觉得，",[498,860,861],{},"是不是喜欢这个工作比什么都重要",[498,863,864],{},"除了这点好像别的东西都不是特别重要",[498,866,867],{},"当然你还要能够维持你的生活","。所以我觉得最重要的还是要去找，但也不要变得太频繁，所以找的时候要很谨慎。我看到过很多学生对我说“我就想要到你们公司来工作”，OK，我就问“那我们公司是干什么的？”，“不知道”，“我们过去是干什么的？”，“不知道”。你什么都不知道，你凭什么说想要到我们公司？他其实就为了找份工作，为了说个好听的话。这么找工作，就有问题了，你要真的喜欢一个工作，你一定是对他很了解的。",[503,870,871],{},"所以我觉得要多花点精力去找，而且不要随便的迁就。要把自己的能力、爱好充分地展现出来，总会有人赏识你的，这个世界这么大，总能找到适合自己的东西，虽然不是百分之一百，但我相信绝大多数人是可以的。",[503,873,874],{},"本刊记者：您对大学生创业有什么看法？",[503,876,877,879,880,528,883,528,886,528,889,532,892,528,895,528,898,528,901,528,904,528,907,532,910,528,917,532,920,528,923,926,927,930,931,528,934,532],{},[498,878,500],{},"：大学生在校期间的创业，我是反对的。",[498,881,882],{},"我对创业的理解很简单",[498,884,885],{},"除非你有很强烈的冲动",[498,887,888],{},"你有很明确的想法",[498,890,891],{},"否则不要为创业而创业",[498,893,894],{},"比方说",[498,896,897],{},"我看到一个产品",[498,899,900],{},"我很喜欢",[498,902,903],{},"周边的人也很喜欢",[498,905,906],{},"我又发现市场上没有",[498,908,909],{},"也许这是个好的机会",[498,911,912,913,916],{},"做企业最重要的是“",[620,914,35],{"href":915},"\u002Fxiaofeizhedaoxiang","”",[498,918,919],{},"必须要保证有人要买你的东西",[498,921,922],{},"还有不是每个人都适合做老板",[498,924,925],{},"不是每个人都适合创业","。你可能看到",[498,928,929],{},"比尔·盖茨","是辍学创业的，戴尔也是辍学的，问题其实是大部分创业成功的人都不是辍学的。",[498,932,933],{},"所以一定要理解",[498,935,936],{},"哪是现象哪是本质",[503,938,939],{},"全文结束。",{"title":941,"searchDepth":13,"depth":13,"links":942},"",[],"段永平深度访谈，谈成功定义、慈善理念、本分诚信的企业文化、家庭与事业的平衡。","md",{},true,"\u002Fdao\u002Fspeeches\u002Fduanyongping-2009nian-shenduzhuanfang-tantaogongyirensheng-fenxiangchenggongtihu",{"title":252,"description":943},"2009年 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